Interview With Matthew Saad Muhammad

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Matthew Saad Muhammad - Interview with Former WBC Light-Heavyweight Champion

"Miracle Matthew," that is how the former WBC light-heavyweight champion wants to be remembered. Matthew Saad Muhammad's career paralleled his life - always battling back from the brink of disaster to achieve success.

Matthew was abandoned as a three year old toddler on the streets of Philadelphia. He found his way back to safety when the authorities found him and placed the child in the care of a group of catholic nuns, who named him Matthew Franklin after the street where he was found - The Franklin Parkway - the same street where the fictional fighter Rocky Bilboa did his famous stair climbing.

The boy remained in the care of the nuns until he was adopted several years later by a loving family. From such humble beginnings, Matthew eventually took up fighting and turned professional in 1974. He won the WBC light-heavyweight title with a sensational eighth round TKO over Marvin Johnson on April 2, 1979.

Matthew soon adopted the Muslim faith and changed his name from Matthew Franklin to Matthew Saad Muhammad. From 1979-1981, Saad Muhammad successfully defended his title eight times. Each of the championship bouts were nationally televised and all were exciting and brutal wars. In that period Matthew Saad Muhammad was as great as any light-heavyweight who ever lived.

On December 19, 1981, the ring battles finally caught up with the fighter when he was given a savage beating and dethroned by Dwight Braxton on a tenth round TKO. The following year, Saad Muhammad got a shot to reclaim his laurels and was battered even worse as he was stopped in six rounds.

Matthew's career was finished in that fight, although he continued ten more years where he lost 12 of his last 19 bouts. It was a sad sight to see a once great warrior suffer losses at the hands of fighters he would have feasted on years earlier.

Saad Muhammad retired following his second round KO at the hands of Jason Waller in 1992. His final record of 39-16-2 failed to reflect just how terrific Matthew once was. Boxing writers never forgot, however, when he was elected into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in Canastota, New York, in 1988.

For those fans who watched fights on saturday and sunday afternoons in the late 1970's and early 1980's, the name and exploits of Matthew Saad Muhammad will forever be etched in their memories.

Harry: How did you feel when you were elected into the International Boxing Hall of Fame?

Saad: Honored and pleased. But I was shocked when it finally came through. I think it could have been some time ago. I'm the man who helped Atlantic City become a boxing capital.

Harry: How did you first get into boxing?

Saad: What made me start was that I was a small kid and other kids used to beat me up on the way to school. I got tired and went to the Jupiter Gym in South Philadelphia to learn to fight.

Harry: How old were you when you began your amateur career?

Saad: I started at age 15. I was 25-4.

Harry: Do you remember your early professional career?

Saad: I was 18. I remember that first fight on January 14, 1974 at the Spectrum in Philadelphia against Billy Early, who was from Indianapolis. When I knocked this guy out (KO-2), oh wow! I felt like I could jump off a roof. I never thought I'd be someone. But here I was being cheered by all those Philly fans.

Harry: Did you think in the beginning that you could someday be a world champ?

Saad: Oh yes. I wanted to be the best at something. I even wanted to be better than Muhammad Ali.

Harry: Did you look up to any fighter when you got started in boxing?

Saad: Yes. I always loved the great one - Ali. Ken Norton was special, and so were Roberto Duran and Danny "Little Red" Lopez. I watched their styles and blended some from each, which made me very dangerous.

Harry: You fought your second fight in France against Bele Apolosa. How did you like fighting there?

Saad: They liked me over there. The way I fought made me popular. I liked France.

Harry: In just your 13th pro fight you beat the future WBC light-heavyweight champ Mate Parlov (W-8). Then seven months later you drew with him. What happened in that second fight?

Saad: It was a hometown decision even though the fight was in Italy. You could see I was the winner. I suffered no cuts and no bruises.

Harry: After Parlov, you beat future WBC cruiserweight king Marvin Carmel on July 17, 1976.

Saad: Camel was a southpaw. I beat him badly with right leads and my lean down style. But in the second fight in Montana, he came back and I lost the decision.

Harry: Future WBA light heavyweight king Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, who was then Eddier Gregory, beat you in 10 rounds in 1977. Later when you were the WBC 175lb. champ, he said you ducked him. Was that true?

Saad: I wanted to fight him.

Harry: Why didn't the unification fight take place?

Saad: Many things. Management mostly. I'd fight anyone.

Harry: Do you remember July 26, 1977.

Saad: The first Marvin Johnson fight. Of course.

Harry: Did he hurt you in that fight?

Saad: Did he hurt me? I heard bells! He hurt me several times, but it wasn't my time to go.

Harry: You seem to have a lot of respect for him?

Saad: Sure I do. He gave me back what I gave him. He whacked me so hard! Unbelievable. But I just had to come back and win that fight.
But I was laughing and giggling - playing a game to get through it. I knew I was being hurt. The pain was bad, but I laughed to get rid of the pain, so it would not hurt. Same as in the Yaqui Lopez fight in the eighth round. He was banging me and I laughed it off. Fans love it too. It brings them out to the fights.
When I was coming back against Johnson, first I was just tapping him - measuring him. Then, WHAM! I didn't stop punching! Something in my head was saying "You gotta go. You'll be champ." I even took punches to wear him out.

Harry: An you finally brought him down.

Saad: Yes. He finally dropped to the canvas in the twelfth.

Harry: In 1978 you stopped Richie Kates in six rounds. He was known as a slick fighter. Did he give you any trouble?

Saad: Yeah. He had fought Galindez earlier. He knocked me down with a very hard punch. He was Mr.Slick, a technician. He'd wait until I threw a jab an then would time a right over it. And then one put me on my back - out of it. Then I woke up on the canvas and beat the count. I got myself back together in the same round and knocked him out. That's why people saw me as the best light heavyweight champ. No one came back like me.

Harry: Your next big fight in 1978 was against Yagui Lopez, who was previously robbed in two fights against WBA light heavyweight titleholder Victor Galindez. Were you worried that he might be too tough for you?

Saad: He taught me a lot of war tactics during the fight. He was a warrior. I knocked him out in the eleventh. That was a lot of warfare!

Harry: In 1979 you again fought Johnson, but this time he was the WBC light-heavy champ. You stopped him in the eighth round in one of the great fights off all time. Were you confident going in that you would be able to knock him out again?

Saad: I outboxed him this time. I made him come to me and let him throw. I kept my distance and then closed on him when I wanted. I wanted to feel him - test him against me because he had fought the best and I did pretty good.

Harry: Was Marvin Johnson your toughest opponent?

Saad: He had to be. I never fought a man as consistent. It was a non-stop war.

Harry: When you climbed through the ropes to fight Johnson for the world title, did you have any special feeling, since you came from such a deprived background and now you were being showcased on a world stage?

Saad: Yes. I always wanted to be respected as someone who had something and who was best at something. I felt I was a special child of God. I survived being lost as a baby and here I was fighting for the World Championship. I had to win!

Harry: When you finished Johnson off and they raised your hand as the champ, what went through your mind?

Saad: I was proud. I had done it.

Harry: You defended your title twice against former champion John Conteh. In August of 1979 you were awarded a 15 round decision, but Conteh said he was robbed.
Saad: How could he have been robbed? He boxed pretty good, but I dropped him a couple of times. My combinations got the best of him.

Harry: In your 1980 rematch with him, you TKO'd him in four rounds. What did you do differently there?

Saad: I had it in my mind to stop him early, so he wouldn't be talking about no bad decisions. I kept on him even when I got tired and breathless, because I wanted him out of there.

Harry: On July 13, 1980, you had a rematch with Yaqui Lopez in one of the greatest battles the light-heavy division has ever had. Were you worried while he was pummeling you on the ropes that you might not be able to pull of a win?

Saad: No. I only worried that I didn't go down. I knew I'd come back and I did.

Harry: The Lopez fight beat out Duran-Leonard 1 as 1980's Fight of The Year. What did you think?

Saad: It tells you I must have been a very popular guy! I was very appreciative of the honour. I truly was.

Harry: After the Lopez fight, your reputation was very high. You stopeed Lottie Mwale in four in a title defense. Was he any challenge?

Saad: Yes. He was from Zambia and he was real quick with flurries, trying to keep his distance. He punched a bit, too. So I made it my business to get rid of him in the fourth.

Harry: In 1981 your first fight was against Vonzell Johnson, whom you stopped in the eleventh round. He gave you a good effort. How did you finish him off.

Saad: I had to! I was starting to get to laid back in my fights. After so many hard matches, I was starting to take it easy. In training I was the man. I wouldn't let anyone tell me what to do. Against Vonzell I kept waiting for one big punch, instead of pounding it out. After the tenth, my trainer Sam Soloman told me I was losing. He said, "Turn it up!" Finally I listened and stepped up the pressure by throwing combinations. It worked. I then knocked him out.

Harry: Then you knocked out future IBF super middleweight champ Murray Sutherland in nine rounds. He had guts, but it looked like you had no trouble with him.

Saad: Yeah. He was the guy that cut my lip. And I did have problems with him. But when I had him hurt it took 20 minutes to change a split glove - that old Angelo Dundee trick. And Angelo was one of the broadcasters for that fight.

Harry: In September of 1981 you made the last successful defense of your WBC light-heavyweight title when you stopped Jerry Martin in eleven rounds. Martin had recently defeated the convict contender James Scott.

Saad: I had a hard time with him in the beginning. He was a Jamaican guy and could take a really good, good beating. He would hum while I was punching him. It was crazy.

Harry: After the Martin fight you seemed to be at the top of your game. You had succeded with a style of taking a beating and then storming back for a KO win. But going into the Dwight Braxton fight, were you feeling the cumulative effects of your battles? Was your body aching? Did you notice your reflexes slowing down a bit?

Saad: By then I had a great career. A lot of people were trying to get at me. I almost felt like I wanted to get beat. I didn't have it in me for that fight. I stayed up one night before the fight. I had an ache for peanuts. I should have gotten more rest. I felt like people were running me, wearing me down.

Harry: And was your body hurting during training?

Saad: Yeah. I didn't feel like training, even though it was a title defense. My reflexes were slow from staying up at night. I wasn't into it anymore.

Harry: Were you losing your drive?

Saad: Yes.

Harry: Personal problems?

Saad: Yeah. I was being sued. Woman problems - Oh man! It was also when I was trying to find my family. I had put up $10,000 reward and right before the fight they found them. Also I had my first kid in 1981 and got married just before.

Harry: In the Braxton title defense you got whipped from pillar to post. Was it the destractions, were you overconfident, or was he just too much for you to handle?

Saad: I went in with a bluff. I wasn't prepared and I knew it. But the bluff didn't work.

Harry: When it was finally over and you had lost your title, how tough was it to accept?

Saad: Very, very hurting. I didn't know what to do. That's what made me take those later fights - to try and get the title back.

Harry: Did you feel if you got the fire back and trained properly, you still had the reflexes to re-capture the title?

Saad: Sure I did. With the right management. George Foreman did it.

Harry: After the title loss, you returned four months later and knocked Pete McIntyre out in two rounds. Did you feel then that you were ready to regain your lost laurels?

Saad: Right. I could still punch. But then I was beaten by Braxton again, I had nothing.

Harry: After the second Braxton defeat, you were then TKO'd in two of your next three bouts by Eric Winbush and Willie Edwards.

Saad: I didn't think the Edwards fight should have been stopped. I had him hurt, too. But when you fight in someone's hometown....

Harry: Sean O'Grady said he knew he was finished when he couldn't take a punch anymore. Did you feel after those two knockouts that your chin, as well as your reflexes, were going.

Saad: I did feel it.

Harry: Were you down about it?

Saad: Yes, I was down and didn't know how to push myself up. I justed pushed on.

Harry: Why? You had done it all. Was it money? Pride?

Saad: I had money. It was more pride. To someone who didn't know his parents, being champ meant everything. It made me go on. I was going to get it back.

Harry: Do you feel the Matthew Saad Muhammad of 197-1981 would be light-heavyweight champion of the world today, particularly considering that Roy Jones is the champ?

Saad: Oh wow! Roy Jones. But I'd have dealt with him. I never ducked anyone.

Harry: Do you feel at your best you would bring Jones down?

Saad: Jones is a busy fighter, always moving. It would be hard to catch him. I'd have to do a lot of cutting the ring off. He'd always be moving. So the outcome would be up in the air - a draw between us.

Harry: But he is also a puncher

Saad: He is a hitter, but not against me at that weight. That's why I say it's a toss up.

Harry: Do you feel Michael Spinks ducked you?

Saad: He absolutely ducked me.

Harry: Could you have beaten him?

Saad: Of course. I was the hottest guy for three years. No one could deal with me.

Harry: Who do you rate as the greatest light-heavyweight champs?

Saad: First, Archie Moore - the greatest light-heavyweight champ. I liked that man. Next is Bob Foster. We almost fought?

Harry: Weren't you years apart?

Saad: Yes, but we almost did. I'm glad we didn't. I saw his left hook - wow! What a hook. Number three, maybe Harold Johnson. He was really good, but not an action fighter. So I guess I'm number three.

Harry: How would you like to be remembered?

Saad: As a man who sometimes took a licking, but always came back. "Miracle Matthew Saad Muhammad" - who would rise up from almost defeat to win it.

Harry: Well said. What are you doing now?

Saad: I'm into video production. We're putting together music videos in the war against drugs. With my associates James Earnest and producer Polly Wilkinson. I also put together a short video of my career for the Boxing Hall of Fame. And Ms.Wilkinson and I are working on a full-length story of my life and career as a child, a champion, and a model. It's being developed for TV.

Harry: Whom do you model for?

Saad: For Sassoon, Jerimachi's, Jordan, and Bally. I enjoy it a great deal. I am also training kids for the Philadelphia Recreation Dept. and some professional fighters.

Harry: Professional? In Philly?

Saad: Yes, in Philadelphia, Atlantic City, and New Orleans. You'll be hearing soon about them.

Harry: Well champ, you are very busy. It was some great career. Considering where you started as a toddler, "Miracle Matthew Saad Muhammad" fits you well as the gloves you wore in your wonderful battles. Thank you and good luck.

Saad: i appreciate it.

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